Made in China

[Aussie]

G'day TW team.

I received my first shipment today (liquid only).  I was surprised when reading the outer box that the liquid is made in China (under authority of Pillbox).

I have nothing against the Chinese, but dislike their manufacturing side of things.

Could you please explain to me (and other members if they may be interested) what quality control practices are in place to ensure the liquid processing isn't compromised?

 

[Customer Service Rep (UK)]

All you need to know about our e-liquid and quality procedures surrounding it, can be found following the link below:

http://www.totallywicked-eliquid.co.uk/about-the-fluid.html

If you should require any further information, let me know.

Louise

[Aussie]

Thanks for that link, Louise.

In part it states:

"Totally Wicked from the outset aimed to be a source of e-liquid that was of good quality, and was safe.  We did a lot of trialling, contacted many different manufacturers, until we were happy we had found a company that could match our specific requirements. This meant we knew the manufacturers, we knew where the e-liquid came from, and we could state that our e-liquid was the best – and really know it. We sent the e- liquid off to UK laboratories for random testing.....",

It seems that the random testing was instigated when TW was selecting the manufacturer to do bsiness with.  Are these random tests carried out continuously by TW from the manufacturer selected?

[pillbox38]

The fluids are not continuously tested however i visited the facility in november and was impressed, i also have sent over the first shipment of UK Freebase pharma nicotine, same nicotine fluid as in the Platinum Ice from the same manufacturer.

The goal is to convert the Red Label Range to using only UK Produced Freebase Pharma nicotine.

This will be happening over the next few months, it locks controls in place re the source ingredient. Ie the Nicotine. A paradigm shift exporting Uk Pharma nicotine to China, then once bottled and Flavoured importing it back.

See this Video, its Mr Wicked and a little lark around, i had made private but to be re-assured, please watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLJwV5dBhQ

[Aussie]

Are you going to make an announcement to members when the freebase nicotine is used and available in the Red Label Range?

[pillbox38]

Off course .. Without a question. Its a Huge selling point IMO.

[Timuk]

Just watched the video....

No complaints from me regarding the whole process...... but what a mind bendingly boring job that must be... not sure what one is worse... putting the cap on, or the one before, just checking the bottle against another bottle !!....guess someone has to do it......

Tim

[pufferfish]

Fascinating video, thanks, really enjoyed the tour of the bottling plant there...

[cyborg]

Looks good to me, enjoyed the video.

[tez77]

The fluids are not continuously tested

Why not? Frankly I don't care where my ingredients are sourced from or where they are prepared, what I care about is that I'm getting the quality of end product I paid for without any nasties added in. Going to the factory for a tour is nice but lets face it, no factory operates the same was as they do on a day when someone is coming to visit/audit whatever.

Out of interest, what happens if I suspect that the 32mg liquid I bought is actually only 8mg, that's a whole weights and measures nightmare thrown in there now

[Aussie]

Thanks for having the strength to express that point tez77.

What's that old saying? - when the chief is away, the indians play.

I noted last night that included in my recent shipment were two 30ml bottles of e-liquid with a use by date of 1-10-11.  I contacted CS and was advised it was a printing error from the manufacturer; it should have read manufactured on 1-10-11.

Has anybody else experienced similar?  I wonder why the other bottles in my shipment had no similar date printing whatsoever.

I don't trust Chinese manufacturing.

I cannot understand why TW do not engage local manufacturers; especially given its future focus is to supply its own nicotine to its Chinese manufacturer. Seems to be a going-around-in-circles process.

[JohnEAngel]

The fluids are not continuously tested however i visited the facility in november and was impressed, i also have sent over the first shipment of UK Freebase pharma nicotine, same nicotine fluid as in the Platinum Ice from the same manufacturer.

The goal is to convert the Red Label Range to using only UK Produced Freebase Pharma nicotine.

This will be happening over the next few months, it locks controls in place re the source ingredient. Ie the Nicotine. A paradigm shift exporting Uk Pharma nicotine to China, then once bottled and Flavoured importing it back.

See this Video, its Mr Wicked and a little lark around, i had made private but to be re-assured, please watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLJwV5dBhQ

when i try to access the youtube link, it says that it is private.  I would like to watch it.

[Aussie]

I've checked in a few times today hoping there would be an answer from the staff.

One additional point I would like to raise to TW is that I thought its hardware and liquids were second-to-none.  TW professes that its products are probably the best.  When I made my purchase I relied on that statement and accepted that the high-end prices equated to this. To be perfectally honest, right now I do not feel confident purchasing any further liquid from TW.

[VicP]

Hi. Interesting thread.

I don't know whether other nicotine sellers test and on what intervals but I would like to see regular testing taking place. I think it is a potential disaster waiting to happen if controls are not put in place. This of course will increase all costs, I'd be more happy with increased cost and increased peace of mind.

My feelings on this have nothing to do with global manufacture positioning.

[tez77]

I think it is a potential disaster waiting to happen if controls are not put in place. This of course will increase all costs, I'd be more happy with increased cost and increased peace of mind.

I actually thought thats why TW prices are a little higher, because their stuff was the purest but without regular testing I don't think I'm buying into that any more.

Does anyone know how much this testing costs and where I can get such testing done?

[Knoton]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn´t e-cigarettes a chinese invention?
And isn´t most vaping stuff produced in China?

I am pretty sure Joyetech that produce our Titan, Tornado and Tornado-C stuff is chinese.

I dont mind buying chinese stuff. I believe that you will find bad manufacturers everywhere in the world.
I trust TW to not select any manufacturers that will give us bad quality stuff.
TW has always been straight with us, trying to answer any questions we might have.
I have no feelings what so ever that they try to hide anything from us.
That is one thing that makes me trust TW.
Jason has direct contact with us the customers, that is extremly uncommon.
If we ask something and they dont know they say so and also say they will investigate and come back to us.

[blindsoup]

The fluids are not continuously tested

Why not? Frankly I don't care where my ingredients are sourced from or where they are prepared, what I care about is that I'm getting the quality of end product I paid for without any nasties added in. Going to the factory for a tour is nice but lets face it, no factory operates the same was as they do on a day when someone is coming to visit/audit whatever.

Out of interest, what happens if I suspect that the 32mg liquid I bought is actually only 8mg, that's a whole weights and measures nightmare thrown in there now

There are home testing kits you can buy to check the nic level.  I have seen them before, im sure you can google to find them.

[blindsoup]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn´t e-cigarettes a chinese invention?
And isn´t most vaping stuff produced in China?

I am pretty sure Joyetech that produce our Titan, Tornado and Tornado-C stuff is chinese.

I dont mind buying chinese stuff. I believe that you will find bad manufacturers everywhere in the world.
I trust TW to not select any manufacturers that will give us bad quality stuff.
TW has always been straight with us, trying to answer any questions we might have.
I have no feelings what so ever that they try to hide anything from us.
That is one thing that makes me trust TW.
Jason has direct contact with us the customers, that is extremly uncommon.
If we ask something and they dont know they say so and also say they will investigate and come back to us.

I couldn't agree more....and for the posts that stated 'i will not and do not feel comfortable buying from TW anymore' well, i guess you will be totally blind (no pun intended) buying from some of the other companies.  Who knows where and how the other companies make/QC their liquid? Pillbox has visited the plant and he is posting videos......where do you see that with other companies? I know a few do it, but with the hundreds of vendors out there now, i wouldn't trust 90% of them.

[pillbox38]

Aussie>>>>What testing do you want?

MG strength? Nicotine grade? Pharma certs? GCMS tests?

Can you be more specific on exactly what your concerns are?

If GCMS Tests.. The Red Label producers GCMS test all their fluids, any required testing i can get. However i do not see this as particularly neccessary, Herc Fluid Produced Using USPG Nicotine by Corex (Tampa) a pharma company. (batch certs held)

Patriot Fluids the same, (not a registered Pharma Company) USPG Nic, or would you like certs on the PG or Vg.??

You need to be more specific, i have no issues at all with my Manufacturers, i understand customers concerns but unless i know which fluid, range, flavour concerns you and why? I cannot really help you.

Happy New Year by the way.

[StevieD]

Does anyone know how much this testing costs and where I can get such testing done?

Several hundred pounds per test.....there are many commercial testing laboratories that will do a test regime for you, ranging from very basic how much Nic/PG/VG is in this sample to full Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrometer component breakdowns. The more comprehensive the testing the higher the cost.

[Aussie]

Pillbox, your post is a little difficult for me to understand with all the foreign company / brand names.

From what I can gather you appear to be advising that the nicotine supplied is certified therefore you question the need for random testing. Correct me if I am wrong.

The concern I wish to clarify with you is the mixing and accuracy of the e-liquid ingredients.  The e-liquid supplied to me provide details on the outer packaging of the various content percentages. I believe this should be the subject of ongoing random testing; to check the accuracy.

We are not dealing with the consumption of a bottle of jam here.  Nicotine can be dangerous if abused. I feel TW should commence the said process immediately. 

Kroton that is true, the e-cigarette hardware originated from China, but hardware of this nature alone could not be classified as a health risk if abused.  On the other hand, the same is not true for e-liquids containing nicotine.

[Kenneth131]

I think random tests on the nic levels on each batch run should be carried out. I know the nic solution is certified as a certain mg level but it's them mixed and bottled. Obviously once mixed how do you know the mg level in the batch of mixed eliquid is what it's supposed to be. I'm only guessing buy I would think all nicotine patches sprays etc have random tests carried out regularly to check consistency of the nic mg strength stated.

The whole pg vg thing isn't a Worry really as long as the pg or vg is tested for purity from the supplier

It's not so much a worry for me about overdosing on nic. I know in high levels nic is highly dangerous but i think. At the levels being used it would be hard to od on it in an enic. However I would like to know that every batch of pre mix I buy is certified via random testing to have the correct amount of nic in it. Basically so i get a nice nic hit every time from my fav liquid and not be short on nic in any bottle.

I love the patriot range and i was wondering when you said its pharma grade but not a reg pharma company. Why don't you use a pharma company for this

cheers Kenny

[Aussie]

It's a can of worms waiting ......

Hyperthetically, if a vapor of TW products suffered harm from that product and commenced a legal action against TW, the Courts would not look favourably on TW for not conducting, at the very least, random testing of products.  I know in Oz companies and so forth have a duty of care in this regard. Perhaps it's different in the UK.

[Timuk]

Aussie....it's the same here in the Uk......

Many moons ago I worked for United Distillers, who produced products like Gordon's Gin, Johnny Walker etc...

They did daily testing for quality and quantity......It was a long time ago and I was more involved with the shipping side rather than production....but I know that each and every batch was tested......batch is the wrong word, but I am sure you know what I mean.....

UD was a multimillion £ international company and I guess cost was not an issue......this is the only industry I have been involved with that did that sot of level of testing of its products....and yet some bad batches did slip through the net.....

I believe that even the big pharmaceutical companies have had issue with "bad" medications slipping through in the past...

I had a bottle of popular brand salad cream a while  ago.....tasted like sick !......my nephew got a new Panasonic DvD player for Xmas, straight out of the box it does not work.......I think that no matter how rigorous testing is there is always going to be an issue at some time..... the problem arises when the product is potentially dangerous....

The important thing is that the company needs to ensure it is taking all reasonable steps toward preventing something going wrong....and I agree....when dealing with a product like nicotine quality control should be very high.....

Tim

[Horsemen]

Okay I'm reading and reading and still no punch line to this joke

I'm thinking some people have way too much free time on their hands.

TW should start WHAT.....WHEN.......   REALLY 

Must be something in the water

[Knoton]

The fluids are not continuously tested however i visited the facility in november and was impressed, i also have sent over the first shipment of UK Freebase pharma nicotine, same nicotine fluid as in the Platinum Ice from the same manufacturer.

The goal is to convert the Red Label Range to using only UK Produced Freebase Pharma nicotine.

This will be happening over the next few months, it locks controls in place re the source ingredient. Ie the Nicotine. A paradigm shift exporting Uk Pharma nicotine to China, then once bottled and Flavoured importing it back.

See this Video, its Mr Wicked and a little lark around, i had made private but to be re-assured, please watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnLJwV5dBhQ

Do I interpret this as TW does not do continous testing?
On the fabric there is somekind of testing and quality control during the process and afterwards?

[StevieD]

That's how I've understood what has been said...that the manufacturers have their own testing regime and that TW have carried out independent testing for comparison/quality assurance.
My first 'profession' was in a QC lab for a dairy foods company, and every stage of the manufacturing process from raw materials to end of shelf life product was sampled and tested in many different ways, it's just part of the product costs.

[Aussie]

G'day all.

StevieD, you posted: "that the manufacturers have their own testing regime and that TW have carried out independent testing for comparison/quality assurance".

I have interpreted TW's original claim to this thread as meaning TW only conducted their independent tests whilst in the process of selecting a manufacturer to do business with.

I do not feel confident with manufacturer's testing alone because it is not conducted independently.

[Lettie22]

Pillbox, your post is a little difficult for me to understand with all the foreign company / brand names.

From what I can gather you appear to be advising that the nicotine supplied is certified therefore you question the need for random testing. Correct me if I am wrong.

The concern I wish to clarify with you is the mixing and accuracy of the e-liquid ingredients.  The e-liquid supplied to me provide details on the outer packaging of the various content percentages. I believe this should be the subject of ongoing random testing; to check the accuracy.

We are not dealing with the consumption of a bottle of jam here.  Nicotine can be dangerous if abused. I feel TW should commence the said process immediately. 

Kroton that is true, the e-cigarette hardware originated from China, but hardware of this nature alone could not be classified as a health risk if abused.  On the other hand, the same is not true for e-liquids containing nicotine.

TW, are you going to respond to this reply from Aussie sent the end of December?  I am curious to read a response.

[tez77]

I finally found some time to watch that video which was interesting... I just assumed that the stuff was bottled by a machine

Question though... at approximately 01:50 into the video there is mixed liquid ready for bottling... some of those bottles have lids on, others are sitting there open. Could they not quite easily become contaminated or be tampered with?

I think that TW should randomly test liquids on a regular basis and perhaps that might add a little to the cost but I would prefer peace of mind.

I don't know, it a funny thing because with analogs I never really cared about the crap I was inhaling but now I am vaping I have a real urge to know what exactly whats in my liquid!?