the new competition

[danwldr]

Do you guys at TW really think its a good idea to base a competition on the Falklands war?
I mean....is it really called for?
I lost an uncle and a cousin from 2nd Para in that stupid war, and I am sure many others lost friends and family too,
could you not have based it on the Battle of Waterloo or something?  Ok, many people died there also, but its not so warm in our hearts,
I for one am very disgusted that you could ever even dream of this.
Obviously I will not be par-taking in this competition 

[FredSpencer]

I have to agree, this really demeans the loss of life, on both sides. Whoever had the idea of jumping on the 30th anniversary bandwagon needs to think again, its a time for reflection, not stupid competitions.

[Ciderman]

+1 to both the above

[RichJr]

What competition? I missed something?

[racy]

We apologise for any offence caused this was obviously not our intention. One of the Company Directors is an Ex Royal Navy Commander, Jason himself served in the Royal Navy during the Falklands and I am an ex WREN. The competition was intended to highlight the sheer futility of war and certainly not to make light of it.
The lady who wrote the article vividly remembers her father, an Officer in 2 Para, serving in the conflict and the emotions she felt at the time.
Our Director is currently travelling but he will add to what I have written at the earliest opportunity.

[real-player]

comps are in the tw newsletter   

[real-player]

(quote)                                                                                                                                                                       (quote)
                 The competition was intended to highlight the sheer futility of war and certainly not to make light of it.


  i think that explains things a bit more! i dont think tw had the intention to cause offence to anyone past or present .

[racy]

I am posting these words, written by my brother, on his behalf

Firstly, may I introduce myself, my name is Fraser and I am the Business Development Director for Pillbox38.  As part of my role, I proof all our newsletters and authorise release, as I did with the most recent newsletter that I authorised yesterday evening.

 

I think it is important that I provide some personal background.  I joined the company 15 months ago after leaving the Royal Navy a year earlier after 28 years of service.  I joined in 1982, exactly one month after HMS Hermes returned to Portsmouth after the conflict and voluntarily retired as a Royal Navy Commander in 2010.  During my career I have known and know a number of friends and colleagues who either took part in the conflict and/or lost friends, colleagues and family during the conflict.  I have also attended too many funerals of colleagues and friends that I have known who have lost their lives serving our armed forces.

 

It is therefore extremely personal to me when the company I represent is suggested to be acting in a manner that seeks to extract some marketing value from crass insensitivity toward service men from both nations that lost their lives in this conflict.  We sell electronic cigarettes and perhaps on reflection we should not involve ourselves in oblique political commentary or attempt satire.  However, that is what we aimed to achieve i.e. reflect on the futility of this conflict and attempt to use a metaphor of vaping to show how dialogue rather than political imperative may have served both the UK and Argentina better than the path that was chosen. To some it understandably appears that we failed in both the brevity and jocularity of the short quiz introduction to capture the right tone – this is my failure and for any offence caused, I provide all who may be offended my sincere apologies.

 

A point of note.  If we as a company are still fortunate to be trading in 10 years’ time, I can promise you that we will still maintain this forum to ensure as a company we are continually held to account by our customers.

 

Fraser

 

Business Development Director

[FredSpencer]

Hello Fraser,

Thanks for posting, very good of you and I'm sure there was no intention to offend or upset anyone. There's a lot to be said for the old maxim about avoiding politics and religion, so whatever you do, don't mention the crus ..... oops.   

[Kenneth131]

I agree to some extent about the not mentioning politics and religion but iv said it before and il say it again that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I live my life and you can say nothing that would offend me. Why would i get offended. Its your opinions and your welcome to have those opinions. It becomes different if you try and force me to see your opinions as fact, especially when it comes to religion.

On another note I think its very good of fraser to come on here and explain the reasons behind the competition so thank you for that. I didnt even think that anyone may take offence at this but i understand why that could be the case.

One thing I would like everyone to remember though, as i have many friends who are ex forces, some who have lost friends and family as well. They all have one thing in common. No matter how wrong, horrific or immoral they thought any conflict was they were doing what they applied for and they enjoyed their time in the forces.

I know the same is not true for Argentinian forces who were a conscripted service so I can understand people may have different views from that side for friends and family automatically sent to war.

[SMonkey]

Kenneth I'm sorry to say this but I think your talking crap.
Nobody "enjoys their time in the forces" during a time of conflict
you'd have to be one sick puppy to enjoy killing and watching your
friends be killed no matter how much bravado they have.

Being an ex soldier my self I have served with soldiers who have
been involved in the troubles in Northern Ireland, the gulf war and Croatia
amongst others. I now work with a very hard no nonsense ex sailor who's
ship was sunk in the Falklands war and although the vast majority of the ship
survived a few did not. This gentleman takes no crap off anybody and speaks
very rarely about what happened yet when he does he still wells up. I have never
ever spoke to anybody who has ever enjoyed war.

Frazer does not need thanking for this competition he needs spanking as it does
appear that it is making light of the Falklands war although I do have to say I'm
positive it wasn't intended. I for one am offended by it and will not be taking part.

And yes this is only my opinion but I'm entitled to it as you are yours but where
TW is concerned I think your blinkered

[Kenneth131]

Sorry if it came over as " enjoying time at war"

It was supposed to read as you enjoyed being in the armed forces. I don't suppose anyone would enjoy war but through the forces you will have made friends that having been through so much together you all share a special bond which you could never re create anywhere else. There's a sense of pride in being part of the forces and that is what I mean when I say you enjoyed it.

Also you must remember why you signed up. Somewhere at some point you must have thought "this is what I want to do and I would be proud to join"

War is however the ugly consequence 

[danwldr]

+1 smonkey, although i have never been in the forces, i have many friends and family who have and are still in the forces, i therefore found it quite alarming that tw seemed to be making light of the situation especially with our current climate and imho are wrong.

[Astrecks]

If Fraser was man enough to apologise, then why don't you be man enough to accept it?

[Kenneth131]

May I suggest that this topic like many alike will never be concluded in a civil manor.

I see everyone's point and Fraser apologized as well as taking responsibility for publishing it.

I take from this that nothing of such fashion will be recreated

On that note should this now not be locked?

We have an answer, apology and assurance it was just a misjudgment end of

If this could be locked and we all take it as lesson learnt, won't happen again

[SMonkey]

If Fraser was man enough to apologise, then why don't you be man enough to accept it?

Man enough to accept it?
Firstly you don't know me.
Secondly you do not know what my personal circumstances are
If you think being a man is simply accepting an apology then you feel free
to go and insult all those that have lost friends and family in conflict then
apologise see what happens.

My comment was directly aimed at Kenneth who stated soldiers enjoyed war
which they do not. I am entitled to my say just as everybody else is, and that's
what I had.

I was not going to comment on this post again but Astrecks your above comment
Is totall out of order and has really boiled my piss.

[pillbox38]

I was going to stay out of this, BUT

The initial article was a reflection on the futility of War, in this case the Falklands War. As it happens on 2-4-1982 i was in basic training at HMS Daedalus, it was also my 17 birthday and i remember well the announcement that the Falklands had been invaded and was an eyewitness and participant in the Furore that took place that weekend in Portsmouth as the ships were loaded and the Task Force sailed.

In my opinion all war is a mess, a real mess. Lots of things went on Politically that were wrong on both sides, guess who took the brunt of it? Thats right the group who always do the Armed forces, UK and Argentinian.

The article written and published framed the idea that would it not be better to Vape and relax together than to shoot and fight with each other? I would say yes, is this dis-respectful? I would say no.

Point is as a company we learnt a lesson, stick to ECigs. However we live in this Screwed up world and SMonkey your wrong. Some love war See this Video

http://youtu.be/5rXPrfnU3G0

I am not sorry to post this video, you really want to know what is going on in our name?

http://youtu.be/61OQGnpmJfs

Children slaughtered, houses and families destroyed, do not tell me war is right in any case.

 I agree our armed forces Believe as i did, that we are doing the right thing, question must be is that correct?

 It does not devalue the dead and injured but ask that no more Good Young British Men and women give their lives and take others in the name of our political elite. They never send their children, do they?

Beating the Patriotic Drum is what the Elite want it means we never ask searching questions of the morality of these WARS IN OUR Names. Ask the young boy with his legs blown of from Lancashire if he thought it was a worthwhile War. Ask any of the mothers of the young Men dead, here in Iraq, afghanistan the USA if it is worth it?

[Serial_Vapist]

thank god a sensible post from Jason, now can we leave this alone and get back to vaping instead of squabbling about percieved slights

Sammy the drama lama has left the building,

and it may be worth pointing out that opinions are like a-holes everyone has one, some of them stink.

[FredSpencer]

Nobody would agree more than I that ordinary people are the pawns and tools of those in power. That, however, doesn't alter the fact that the death of loved ones is sometimes only bearable to some people if the act they died in was 'justified'. It helps, simple as that.

Singling out one conflict for the competition, then getting the lead protagonists half wrong and now posting videos unrelated to the particular event doesn't really help. I still think avoiding politics and religion is the best way forward, but if it is that these subjects are to be included in competitions they should, at least, be non-specific.

Just a last thought. I'm sure you wouldn't want your forum occupied by people having a go at each other over these subjects, but it would be hard to justify stopping them if you raise them yourselves.

[pillbox38]

Fred your post has lost me, Lead Protagonist and Half wrong and un related videos??

Re Related Videos i chose not too, but i could have posted videos that show atrocities on both sides of the Falklands issue.

Fact remains the competition was suggesting that Peace is better than War.

Too many too sensitive people.  

The Reason i posted the videos was to let people see the side of sanctioned Killing that the BBC never show. But beLIEve the propaganda if you wish that all is justified, it is not.

By the WAy Fred i do not mind if the Forum forms opinions on worthwhile subjects, War is one that is becoming more valid as the world is cranking itself up to implode. So in answer to your question, i do not mind.

[melons]

the world is cranking itself up to implode

Are you hinting that TW will be stocking 'Tin Foil Hats' soon

[FredSpencer]

Fred your post has lost me, Lead Protagonist and Half wrong and un related videos??

Galtieri was the Argentine leader at the time of the conflict. Thatcher actually got on with Pinochet as I remember it, even having him stay over here. There were protests at the time.

Re Related Videos i chose not too, but i could have posted videos that show atrocities on both sides of the Falklands issue.

From whatever conflict I don't see they really do any good here.

Fact remains the competition was suggesting that Peace is better than War.

I doubt you'll get an argument about peace being better than war but that's clearly not the case as to whether or not it was the best idea for a competition.

Too many too sensitive people.

I'd rather people are too sensitive than not sensitive enough, you'll get more wars from the latter. 

The Reason i posted the videos was to let people see the side of sanctioned Killing that the BBC never show. But beLIEve the propaganda if you wish that all is justified, it is not.

I didn't post about what I believe, but merely stated some people found comfort that it was 'justified'. I've heard that from their own mouths.

By the WAy Fred i do not mind if the Forum forms opinions on worthwhile subjects, War is one that is becoming more valid as the world is cranking itself up to implode. So in answer to your question, i do not mind.

What if the general opinion didn't conform with yours? Would you really be happy if the outcome was one in favour of warmongering?

I suspect you and I don't really disagree about war, but I do think incorporating it into your competition was a mistake. Of course it's your business, your forum and your competition, so ultimately your choice, but I still think it was unwise. I just don't see the point of doing something that might cause controversy which will really achieve nothing to reduce the possibility of wars in future ..... you'd be better off writing to your MP.

 

[pillbox38]

Writing to my MP...Really?

Thats about as much use as using a fire extinguisher to cool the Sun.

Why would anyone be LIE ve that writing to their MP might help?

They have zero say in world or in fact any meaningful Uk events. Its decided for them, to be LIE ve otherwise is a delusion Fred.

Fred i care not who agrees with me, i know my own truths, i also know the deeper levels of deceit being played out and hidden.

But that my friend is a different topic.

Re the competition, the Fact is, it offered the thought that vaping together was better than fighting together. Nothing political there, but off course this gets confused in the High drama of watch what you say.

[Astrecks]

This debate can run and run, and people have had time to say what they want so I am locking this thread.

Thank you

[pillbox38]

Jeff i have un-locked so Fred can leave a reply i will leave it un locked so people can respond or add their thoughts if they wish..

[FredSpencer]

Jeff i have un-locked so Fred can leave a reply i will leave it un locked so people can respond or add their thoughts if they wish..

Thanks Jason,

Here is a response I tried to post earlier:

I was just winding you up about writing to your MP, although they do send a very polite reply on expensive looking paper if you do. Mine did anyway. 

Back to serious.

War is a tool of politics. It can't be divorced from it and couldn't be done away with by any means without some unimaginably radical change in society. I doubt that would be triggered by a worldwide competition using mass media to get it across, never mind one here. I just wonder what the lasting memory of it will be, at least for some people, and whether it will have really been worth it. I would even suggest you would have got more and better dialogue going had you simply started a thread, "I think all war is futile - discuss."

[yage]

i for one have just entered this comp'..as the message i got from the email went somut along the lines of "make e-juice not war"..
also am broke atm and would love to own the full eGo-c kit..maybe i've got more chance of winning now 

[Kenneth131]

good luck yage its a comp and you have to be in it to win it. 

[AES]

Please bear the terse comment, but it seems that stamping out genocide, as defined by Raphael Lemkin, invalidates the notion that war is futile in all cases.   However, I agree that the human condition does drive men to war for some very ignorant, greedy, needless reasons.
 
Personally, it makes me sick to know that the United States is funding contractors in Afghanistan (infrastructure improvement programs) - which in turn fund the insurgency/enemy, e.g. locals, all the while sending young men into hot battle with the same @#$%.  IMO there is no winning anything in this type of warfare. 

[RichJr]

I'm sorry AES but the Afghanistan locals are NOT alquada. They are people just like us that have no control over their own land.  Please don not confuse a whole country with a terrorist group.